Vill Saurons armé nå de odödliga länderna om ringen inte förstördes?

33

Frodo kastar ringen i berget Doom och sparar Middle Earth. Därefter avgår han - tillsammans med Gandalf och alla älvorna - Middle Earth och går till en plats som heter Undying Lands , tillflyktsort för älven som är trött på Middle Earth.

Min fråga är, om Frodo inte lyckades förstöra ringen och om Sauron hämtade ringen och använde den till sin fördel, skulle Saurons styrkor kunna nå de odödliga landen och erövra alla hörn av jorden, inte bara Middle Earth?

    
uppsättning Graviton 10.07.2012 12:41

3 svar

36

Nej, de odödliga länderna avlägsnades från världens sfärer när numenorerna försökte nå dem i slutet av andra åldern. Detta leder till Valar som kallar Eru, som avlägsnade de odödliga länderna som resulterade i att Numenor sjunker:

Then Manwë upon the Mountain called upon Ilúvatar, and for that time the Valar laid down their government of Arda. But Ilúvatar showed forth his power, and he changed the fashion of the world; and a great chasm opened in the sea between Númenor and the Deathless Lands, and the waters flowed down into it, and the noise and smoke of the cataracts went up to heaven, and the world was shaken. And all the fleets of the Númenóreans were drawn down into the abyss, and they were drowned and swallowed up for ever. But Ar-Pharazôn the King and the mortal warriors that had set foot upon the land of Aman were buried under falling hills: there it is said that they lie imprisoned in the Caves of the Forgotten, until the Last Battle and the Day of Doom.

But the land of Aman and Eressëa of the Eldar were taken away and removed beyond the reach of Men for ever. And Andor, the Land of Gift, Númenor of the Kings, Elenna of the Star of Eärendil, was utterly destroyed. For it was nigh to the east of the great rift, and its foundations were overturned, and it fell and went down into darkness, and is no more. And there is not now upon Earth any place abiding where the memory of a time without evil is preserved. For Ilúvatar cast back the Great Seas west of Middle-earth, and the Empty Lands east of it, and new lands and new seas were made; and the world was diminished, for Valinor and Eressëa were taken from it into the realm of hidden things. (The Silmarillion)

Efter denna förändring i världen, var den endast tillgänglig av Eldar uttryckligen:

the Eldar were permitted still to depart and to come to the Ancient West and to Avallónë, if they would. Therefore the loremasters of Men said that a Straight Road must still be, for those that were permitted to find it. And they taught that, while the new world fell away, the old road and the path of the memory of the West still went on, as it were a mighty bridge invisible that passed through the air of breath and of flight (which were bent now as the world was bent), and traversed Ilmen which flesh unaided cannot endure, until it came to Tol Eressëa, the Lonely Isle, and maybe even beyond, to Valinor, where the Valar still dwell and watch the unfolding of the story of the world. (The Silmarillion)

De var endast nåbara av älvor och de som får speciella undantag från Valaren, det vill säga Ringbärarna (och Gimli), även om dessa fortfarande kommer att dö i de odödliga länderna:

But the promise made to the Eldar (the High Elves – not to other varieties, they had long before made their irrevocable choice, preferring Middle-earth to paradise) for their sufferings in the struggle with the prime Dark Lord had still to be fulfilled: that they should always be able to leave Middle-earth, if they wished, and pass over Sea to the True West, by the Straight Road, and so come to Eressëa – but so pass out of time and history, never to return. ...

But in this story it is supposed that there may be certain rare exceptions or accommodations (legitimately supposed? there always seem to be exceptions); and so certain 'mortals', who have played some great part in Elvish affairs, may pass with the Elves to Elvenhome. Thus Frodo (by the express gift of Arwen) and Bilbo, and eventually Sam (as adumbrated by Frodo); and as a unique exception Gimli the Dwarf, as friend of Legolas and 'servant' of Galadriel.

I have said nothing about it in this book, but the mythical idea underlying is that for mortals, since their 'kind' cannot be changed for ever, this is strictly only a temporary reward: a healing and redress of suffering. They cannot abide for ever, and though they cannot return to mortal earth, they can and will 'die' – of free will, and leave the world. (Letter 154)

Inga icke-älvor som inte har spelat en stor roll i Elven-frågor skulle någonsin kunna hitta Straight Road som fortfarande leder till Valinor.

    
svaret ges 10.07.2012 12:55
8

Gandalf Gray kom från Aman till Middle Earth. Så om passagen var beroende av makten ensam kunde Sauron säkert tvinga den raka vägen och resa till Aman.

Men Sauron skulle inte överleva länge i Aman. Sauron är en Maia (mindre kraft) och skulle vara uppfylld av Valar (större makter) som bor där.

Så Sauron skulle väl rekommenderas att vänta till slutet av dagarna. På Dagor Dagorath kommer Morgoth (Saurons mentor) att upptäcka hur man bryter dörrkvällen och kommer att förstöra solen och månen. Det verkar osannolikt att den raka vägen skulle utgöra ett stort hinder för Morgoth.

    
svaret ges 10.07.2012 22:16
1

would Sauron's forces be able to reach the Undying Lands and conquer every corner of the Earth, not just the Middle Earth?

Conquer? Tänk på att Morgoth flydde de odödliga länderna och återvände aldrig med en armé trots sig själv och hans armé var långt starkare än Saurons. Med goda skäl: i Vredenskrigen var hela hans värd och Morgoth själv besegrad och bevisade Valar-värdens mäktigare. Varken Morgoth eller Sauron är en match för Tulkas, ring eller inte. Tänk på att hela Arda ansågs vara Morgoths Ring och han besegrades.

Om Sauron kunde öppna den borttappade vägen, är det lite öppen kvar (kanske skulle han tortera en älva för att få honom?) Men han har ingen intresse för det för att bara fullständig förstörelse väntar honom i andra änden.

    
svaret ges 18.01.2017 23:50