Innan D & D publicerades deltog Dave Arnesons spelare i några PvP
Från en webbplats som fångade några av Dave Arnesons musings och minnen:
Detta utdrag är kraftigt avsnitten för att ta bort musings som inte är direkt relaterade till din fråga. Arnesons påminnelser identifierar tydligt delar av PvP i de tidiga formerna av RPG-spel som i tid (som inspelade på annat håll) kom fram till att D & D publicerades och RPG startade. Kursiv och fet är mina för tonvikt när det gäller att svara på din fråga. De är inte i de ursprungliga musingsna.
A Quarter Century of Role Playing?
By Dave Arneson
Historical quotes
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"I'm laying off Pete what about me?"
Intercepted message in Medieval skirmish game. So was it to Pete or about Pete? Individual player goals introduced. {snip}
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'You can't stab me in the back. We're on the same side!"
Early Blackmoor game Introduction of the Chaotic thief. (Character Class/Alignment). {snip}
En dokumenterad backstick under spelningen.
Each marked a new phase in what was to become the first role playing game. Before the above Medieval game the battles with knights was pretty much a dice
throwing match until someone got wiped out. No real tactics or
strategy. With that game no one knew whose side anyone was on for the
medieval sword bashes. {snip}
Fri för alla slagsmål, inte en part som i sig arbetar tillsammans.
Role playing came into it's own for me when I thought about using the Medieval skirmish rules called CHAINMAIL along with the individual goal concept explored in the Braunstiens. Set in a town called BLACKMOOR. Actually mostly the graph paper dungeon under the castle and town. The previous games had all been 'on the board' but it's hard to hide things there. A totally unseen dungeon maze added additional territory and to hide several nasty beasts therein.
The CHAINMAIL matrix called for any losers being immediately killed which the players certainly did not like. And there were not enough critters to satisfy them either. Shortly after that the matrix was replaced, spells added, yadda yadda yadda.
Tydlig referens till proto-D & D och Arneson släppte Chainmail som grundregler modell eftersom det inte fungerade tillräckligt bra. (Obs! Han hade redan skrivit några spelregler, och det verkar vara ungefär den tid han och Gary Gygax satt ihop Ge inte upp skeppet , ett marinstridsspel).
{snip} We began without the multitude of character classes and three alignments that exists today. I felt that as a team working towards common goals there would be it was all pretty straight forward. Wrong!
Festen paradigmet i den publicerade Original D & D som utfärdades av TSR 1974 var inte den enda modellen i Proto-RPG: s Arneson kördes i Twin Cities Area.
Well I couldn't really make him give it to the new character. But then came the treasure question. The Thieves question. Finally there were the two new guys. One decided that there was no reason to share the goodies. Since there was no one else around and a +3 for rear attacks . . .. well . . Of course everyone actually KNEW what had happened, especially the target. After a great deal of discussion . . . yes let us call it "discussion" the culprit promised to make amends. He, and his associate did. The next time the orcs attacked the two opened the door and let the Orcs in. They shared the loot and fled North to the lands of the EGG OF COOT. (Sigh)
Lagspel? Inte alltid. Ibland hade Dave Griefers som lekte på sina bord.
We now had alignment. Spells to detect alignment, and rules forbidding actions not allowed by ones alignment. Actually not as much fun as not knowing. Chuck and John had a great time being the 'official' evil players. They would draw up adventures to trap the others (under my supervision) and otherwise make trouble.
DM-stödd PvP, från befälhavaren själv.
And finally; The message was to Pete by the way but everyone assumed it was to someone else. The resulting free-for-all left no victors, just losers.
PvP, många kontra många. Allt under de tidiga rollspel i Blackmoor.
En gammal skolspelares reminiscens
För att svara på din fråga direkt, från ett spelareperspektiv frågade jag Mike Mornard, som spelade i Gygax 'Greyhawk, Arnesons Blackmoor, och M.A.R. Barker's Empire of Petal Throne (inlägg som gronanofsimmerya)
Fråga från KorvinStarmast:
As RPG's were forming, were the player characters expected to distrust, mistreat, and work against the other player characters?
Mike svar:
Not much PvP per se, but very MUCH "uneasy alliances between ruthless
pirates."
Obs: Michael Mornard Spelas i den ursprungliga Blackmoor, Greyhawk och EPT-kampanjer
Han gjorde en annan observation om PvP-episoder som erbjöd en titt på hur brädspelet Diplomacy påverkade spelgemenskapen och hur wargaming i allmänhet formade attityder i proto-D & D-spel i både Twin Cities-området och Genèvesjön. (Varning: något hård språk i den tråden ).
We were wargamers, and DIPLOMACY players, and many of us were members
of the “Castle and Crusade Society.” We were not a “true blue
fellowship of Adventurers,” we were rivals for power. Usually friendly
rivals, but rivals nonetheless. There was no trickery or double
dealing in the dungeon, because such actions would be frankly
suicidal; the dungeon was so dangerous that you could not afford to
weaken your party. But in the larger game of political maneuvering, we
were rivals. We were all going to build our own castles because there
is only ONE Lord of a castle.
En annan instans av tidig PvP spelas här , om än begagnad:
Mike told a story of a wizard played by Ernie Gygax. Mike doesn’t know
the character’s name because people usually called the character
“Ernie’s Wizard”. He found a powerful magic item, possibly called “the
Orb of Cleric” (not an item I’ve heard of, but maybe Mike can
clarify). Tom Champeny’s character was a cleric and wanted it. He
offered to buy it, gave Ernie presents, etc. Finally, out in the
wilderness one day, he cast Finger of Death on Ernie and took it. No
one got upset: 13-year-old Ernie was like, “oh well, guess I should
have given it to you.” (Ernie’s Wizard’s henchmen got him
resurrected.)