Är Lannister syskon verkligen vem de säger att de är?

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Från den här artikeln :

The Targaryens, for those of you who lose track of all of the surnames in the series, are the platinum-haired royal family who ruled the land for centuries prior to the events of the show/books. Daenerys' entire claim to the throne is based on the idea that she's the last surviving member of that family. She intends to press this claim using her inherent genetic ability to befriend dragons, which is how the Targaryens came to power in the first place.

So, anyone who turns out to be a Targaryen in this universe automatically is a big deal, because they can make a plausible claim to the throne. According to Internet theorists, the reason Tyrion is everyone's favorite Lannister (aside from the stone-fisted awesomeness of Peter Dinklage) might be because he isn't actually a Lannister at all -- he's half Targaryen.

First, there's the fact that Tywin, Tyrion's official father, hates Tyrion with every fiber of his being and loathes calling him "son." He even says to Tyrion, "Men's laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors since I cannot prove that you are not mine."

Now, you could just chalk that up to another gilded gauntlet full of cold-blooded spite Tywin is so fond of hurling around, but the fact that he said "I cannot prove that you are not mine" seems to indicate that he really doesn't think Tyrion is his child.

See, in the books, Tyrion is described as having hair so blond that it's nearly white (all the Targaryens have white hair), as well as one green eye and one dark eye that's almost black (it could conceivably be a deep purple, which is the color of the Targaryens' eyes). Add to that the fact that King Aerys Targaryen, whom Tywin worked for, totally wanted to bang Tywin's wife, and the evidence begins to stack up to right around waist height -- the former king is Tyrion's real dad.

Some fans even extend the theory to Tywin's less-shame-inducing offspring, Jaime and Cersei. If you think about it, they certainly display some undeniably Targaryen characteristics: They carry on the age-old Targaryen tradition of hyper incest, they're both absurdly narcissistic, and Cersei is obsessed with fire. Jaime even compares her to King Aerys after she burns down the Tower of the Hand, and Jaime would know, because he personally stabbed King Aerys to death.

The real smoking crossbow, though, is that on Tywin and Joanna's wedding night, Aerys said that it was a "great pity that the lord's right to the first night had been abolished" before taking "liberties ... during the bedding." Exactly what sort of "liberties" are unclear, but it's entirely possible that not a damn one of Tywin's children are actually his.

Finns det några bevis på att någon (eller alla) Lannister syskon är egentligen Targaryens?

    
uppsättning Finnball 29.10.2014 12:52

1 svar

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Den "friheterna [Aerys] tog under sängkläderna" som grund för en teori för Jaime och Cersei flyger inte enligt information från den nyligen publicerade boken Världen av is och eld , som citerat genom Tumblr användarannonser :

The theory “Jaime and Cersei are Secret Targs” was based on the idea that Cersei and Jaime were conceived when Aerys allegedly raped Joanna while taking “liberties” at the bedding on Tywin and Joanna’s wedding night in 263 AC.

[...]

But even if Aerys HAD raped Joanna while taking “liberties” in 263, it’s not physically possible for Jaime and Cersei to have been conceived on Tywin’s wedding night in 263. Jaime and Cersei were born in 266 AC at Casterly Rock. Joanna was not at court; she had been dismissed immediately after “liberties” because Rhaella thought of her as a “whore” and victim-blamed her. (Click here for relevant quotes.) Joanna was not in contact with Aerys again until they moved the court to Casterly Rock for a year in 267 AC, which was after Jaime and Cersei were born.

UPDATE: Tumblr-användare joannalannister skriver detta om att Tyrion är en Targaryen (som resultatet av Joanna Lannister har blivit våldt av Aerys):

I am certain Tywin would not continue to serve the man who raped his wife, regardless of what Aerys wanted. Tywin resigned over Jaime being taken from him; he would have resigned over Joanna being raped. I feel very confident in saying that.

Det finns mycket mer i hennes inlägg, men det bör noteras att det för närvarande inte finns några bevis för att definitivt bestämma någonting. Men för mig verkar det vara ett fall av GRRM som trollar sina läsare; som hon säger:

Saving the world is not limited to Targaryens, secret or otherwise.

UPDATE 2: Det verkar inflytelserika ASoIaF bloggare Sean T. Collins är nu ombord med" Tyrion Targaryen " efter att ha läst Världen av is och eld . Och han inte seem till vara trolling hans läsare.

Jag har just börjat läsa TWoIaF så jag vet inte vilken "bevisning" han fann. Jag försöker uppdatera mitt svar när jag når den delen av boken.)

UPPDATERING 3: Elio M. García Jr och Linda Antonsson, medförfattare till Världen av is och eld , talade i podcast av is och eld om detta ämne :

They point out that the new book pretty much flat-out debunks the idea that Aerys is secretly Jaime & Cersei’s real father. That’s a theory I never thought cut any ice anyway, but they’re right, the timeline doesn’t work in any way. With a surprisingly vocal degree of regret, however, they also point out that it doesn’t debunk the idea that Aerys is secretly Tyrion's father. Interestingly, they're on the side of the many, many detractors of this theory here on tumblr — they don't like it at all. Elio said something to the effect of “You know, it's George's story, if that's where he wants to take it that's fine, but…” and he and Linda went on to voice some of the same objections I've seen here, off the top of my head the idea that it undermines the weight of the similarities between Tywin and Tyrion, and that this might be one secret Targaryen/Blackfyre too many. The whole conversation is interesting insofar as if they'd had any inside information about the truth of the matter, they surely wouldn't have brought it up at all, and they dislike the idea enough to say so publicly even though by their own admission it's entirely possible their own co-author is headed in exactly that direction.

Sammanfattningsvis: Vi kommer sannolikt bara att veta efter publiceringen av den slutliga boken i serien En sång av is och eld .

UPPDATERING 4: Jag har läst relevanta avsnitt i TWoIaF, och det verkar som om det verkligen finns ingen anledning att anta att Cersei och Jaime är Targaryens. Tyrions ursprung verkar emellertid vara medvetet vagt. Det finns ingen rapport från Aerys II Targaryen sängkläder Joanna Lannister, men han hade lusted efter henne trots att han inte hade förbrukat det förhållandet före hennes äktenskap med Tywin.

Jag ser det helt möjligt att han missbrukade henne vid årsdagen Tourney av 272 AC som hölls för att fira Aerys tio år på Iron Throne, särskilt med tanke på hans fula kommentarer mot henne (han bad henne om att suga att de hade "förstört dina bröst, som var så höga och stolta. "). Tywin försökte återvända sin kedja nästa morgon, men kungen vägrade att acceptera sin avgång.

Det finns inga "exakta datum", men jag tycker att det är lite alltför tillfälligt att hon födde Tyrion i 273 AC och att några av beskrivningarna matchar beskrivningarna av missfallet Aerys hustru:

a malformed, dwarfish babe born with stunted legs, an oversized head, and mismatched, demonic eyes (some reports also suggested he had a tail, which was lopped off at his lord father’s command)

Då finns också Aerys avundsjuka WRT Tywin med vackra tvillingar:

“I appear to have married the wrong woman.”

Det finns hans insisterande på att Tywin tar dom och deras mamma till domstol:

“And bring their mother, too, for it has been too long since I gazed upon that fair face.”

Och det finns hans uttalande efter Tyrions födelse:

“The gods cannot abide such arrogance. They have plucked a fair flower from his hand and given him a monster in her place, to teach him some humility at last.”

Ingen av det är naturligtvis bevis.

    
svaret ges 29.10.2014 13:21