Vem var den andra mannen Ned förnekad?

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På sidan 200 i Ett spel av troner berättar Catelyn Ned att Littlefinger hjälper dem. Nedan betraktar Ned

It would not be the first time that Ned had been forced to make common cause with a man he despised.

Att läsa detta tillfälligt kan man bara tro att det är ett pragmatiskt uttalande, men ser som Ett spel av troner i allmänhet, och i synnerhet Neds kapitler är så riddled med vaga uttalanden av stor import, Jag blev omedelbart fascinerad om det här hänvisar till en viss person.

Min första, och från och med än, var tanken

that it was Rhaegar. When Lyanna died, she made Ned promise (Promise me, Ned) to shield Rhaegar's son from Robert. So in a sense, Ned would have made common cause with someone he'd have reason to harbour animosity against.

However, it does not quite ring true. Lyanna and Rhaegar's disappearance seems to have been them simply falling in love, and Ned would hardly in good conscience despise the man Lyanna loved. Ned's feelings of despise seem to be reserved only for people who behave dishonourably. I also doubt very much that Rhaegar had anything to do with Lyanna dying (besides getting her pregnant). So, it does not feel quite right that Ned should despise him.

Also, of course, Rhaegar was not actually around at the Tower of Joy, and it does not seem likely that he had a conversation with any of the Kingsguard, since he killed them all. (Besides, they were honourable men, so he would not despise them).

Men om inte han, vem? Varys? Roose Bolton? Jorah Mormont? Någon över det smala havet? Finns det någon referens jag har saknat?

Jag minns bara något från ADWD:

In the Davos chapter where he talks to the Lord of Sisterton Ned Stark is mentioned as having passed through there and saying something like "If I fail, I was never here." There is also mention (possibly red herring) about a fish wife and a bag of silver. A smuggler would be someone Ned would have cause to despise... seems personal enough, but pretty thin.

    
uppsättning TLP 17.04.2012 18:49

5 svar

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TL; DR: Det har aldrig gjorts uttryckligt i själva texten, men det finns några alternativ för vem det troligen kommer att vara. Jag kommer att lista dem i stort sett i storleksordning till minst sannolikt, men Tywin Lannister är den mest sannolika kandidaten.

Ned måste göra en gemensam orsak med Lannisters efter Roberts uppror på grund av att Tywin finansierade de sju kungariket och Robert hade gift sig med Cersei. Han verkar inte ha kommit över några av sina handlingar men.

Tywin Lannister

Han gör det klart i dessa avsnitt att han misstroar Tywin och inte bryr sig om att han ens går så långt att han är beredd att förolämpa honom.

Ned would sooner entrust a child to a pit viper than to Lord Tywin, but he left his doubts unspoken. Some old wounds never truly heal, and bleed again at the slightest word. "The wife has lost the husband," he said carefully. "Perhaps the mother feared to lose the son. The boy is very young."

...

"A generous offer, my friend," the king said, "but too late. Lord Tywin has already given his consent. Fostering the boy elsewhere would be a grievous affront to him."

"I have more concern for my nephew's welfare than I do for Lannister pride," Ned declared.

A Game of Thrones, Eddard I

Han tänker också på Tywin som en mördare av oskyldiga och tycks föregripa honom fortfarande för att ge order att döda barnen.

Ned did not feign surprise; Robert's hatred of the Targaryens was a madness in him. He remembered the angry words they had exchanged when Tywin Lannister had presented Robert with the corpses of Rhaegar's wife and children as a token of fealty. Ned had named that murder; Robert called it war. When he had protested that the young prince and princess were no more than babes, his new-made king had replied, "I see no babes. Only dragonspawn." Not even Jon Arryn had been able to calm that storm. Eddard Stark had ridden out that very day in a cold rage, to fight the last battles of the war alone in the south. It had taken another death to reconcile them; Lyanna's death, and the grief they had shared over her passing.

This time, Ned resolved to keep his temper. "Your Grace, the girl is scarcely more than a child. You are no Tywin Lannister, to slaughter innocents." It was said that Rhaegar's little girl had cried as they dragged her from beneath her bed to face the swords. The boy had been no more than a babe in arms, yet Lord Tywin's soldiers had torn him from his mother's breast and dashed his head against a wall.

A Game of Thrones, Eddard II

Han tänker också på mannen som oärlig för när han svek den galna kungen under kongens landning.

"Not our men," Ned said patiently. "Lannister men. The lion of Lannister flew over the ramparts, not the crowned stag. And they had taken the city by treachery."

The war had raged for close to a year. Lords great and small had flocked to Robert's banners; others had remained loyal to Targaryen. The mighty Lannisters of Casterly Rock, the Wardens of the West, *had remained aloof from the struggle**, ignoring calls to arms from both rebels and royalists. Aerys Targaryen must have thought that his gods had answered his prayers when Lord Tywin Lannister appeared before the gates of King's Landing with an army twelve thousand strong, professing loyalty. So the mad king had ordered his last mad act. He had opened his city to the lions at the gate.

A Game of Thrones, Eddard II

Jaime Lannister

Liksom Tywin verkar han inte lita på Jaime väldigt mycket och hoppas att Robert inte kommer att kalla honom Warden i öst eftersom det skulle innebära att han så småningom skulle hålla Est och West.

"Kingslayer," Ned said. The rumors were true, then. He rode on dangerous ground now, he knew. "An able and courageous man, no doubt," he said carefully, "but his father is Warden of the West, Robert. In time Ser Jaime will succeed to that honor. No one man should hold both East and West." He left unsaid his real concern; that the appointment would put half the armies of the realm into the hands of Lannisters.

A Game of Thrones, Eddard II

Återigen upprepar han att han inte litar på Jaime och även stavar det klart för Robert. Han tycker även att han är oärlig för att sitta sig uppe på järntronen. Han verkar också ogillar Jaime's arrogans och cockiness.

"Can you trust Jaime Lannister?"

"He is my wife's twin, a Sworn Brother of the Kingsguard, his life and fortune and honor all bound to mine."

His sword helped taint the throne you sit on, Ned thought, but he did not permit the words to pass his lips. "He swore a vow to protect his king's life with his own. Then he opened that king's throat with a sword."

"Seven hells, someone had to kill Aerys!" Robert said, reining his mount to a sudden halt beside an ancient barrow. "If Jaime hadn't done it, it would have been left for you or me."

...

"I cannot answer for the gods, Your Grace … only for what I found when I rode into the throne room that day," Ned said. "Aerys was dead on the floor, drowned in his own blood. His dragon skulls stared down from the walls. Lannister's men were everywhere. Jaime wore the white cloak of the Kingsguard over his golden armor. I can see him still. Even his sword was gilded. He was seated on the Iron Throne, high above his knights, wearing a helm fashioned in the shape of a lion's head. How he glittered!"

"This is well known," the king complained.

"I was still mounted. I rode the length of the hall in silence, between the long rows of dragon skulls. It felt as though they were watching me, somehow. I stopped in front of the throne, looking up at him. His golden sword was across his legs, its edge red with a king's blood. My men were filling the room behind me. Lannister's men drew back. I never said a word. I looked at him seated there on the throne, and I waited. At last Jaime laughed and got up. He took off his helm, and he said to me, 'Have no fear, Stark. I was only keeping it warm for our friend Robert. It's not a very comfortable seat, I'm afraid.'"

The king threw back his head and roared. His laughter startled a flight of crows from the tall brown grass. They took to the air in a wild beating of wings. "You think I should mistrust Lannister because he sat on my throne for a few moments?" He shook with laughter again. "Jaime was all of seventeen, Ned. Scarce more than a boy."

"Boy or man, he had no right to that throne."

ibid

Gregor Clegane

Det kan argumenteras Ned har aldrig riktigt gjort en gemensam sak med Gregor, men han har red tillsammans med honom och blivit tvungen att klara sig med honom på grund av sin gemensamma trohet med Lannisters. Ned verkade ogilla och misstro Gregor och till och med trodde sig på rykten om riddaren och att han var den som dödade Elia och babesna.

Unlike his brother, Ser Gregor did not live at court. He was a solitary man who seldom left his own lands, but for wars and tourneys. He had been with Lord Tywin when King's Landing fell, a new-made knight of seventeen years, even then distinguished by his size and his implacable ferocity. Some said it had been Gregor who'd dashed the skull of the infant prince Aegon Targaryen against a wall, and whispered that afterward he had raped the mother, the Dornish princess Elia, before putting her to the sword. These things were not said in Gregor's hearing.

Ned Stark could not recall ever speaking to the man, though Gregor had ridden with them during Balon Greyjoy's rebellion, one knight among thousands. He watched him with disquiet. Ned seldom put much stock in gossip, but the things said of Ser Gregor were more than ominous. He was soon to be married for the third time, and one heard dark whisperings about the deaths of his first two wives. It was said that his keep was a grim place where servants disappeared unaccountably and even the dogs were afraid to enter the hall. And there had been a sister who had died young under queer circumstances, and the fire that had disfigured his brother, and the hunting accident that had killed their father. Gregor had inherited the keep, the gold, and the family estates. His younger brother Sandor had left the same day to take service with the Lannisters as a sworn sword, and it was said that he had never returned, not even to visit.

A Game of Thrones, Eddard VII

Roose Bolton

Jag nämner Roose här för att han nämnts i frågan och det är en smal chans att det är han, men jag tvivlar på det. I själva verket är jag ganska säker på att det inte ska vara honom.

Stark och Bolton har varit i konflikt med varandra så länge som Stark och Boltons har varit. Så du skulle anta att det här skulle vara en sannolik kandidat och de två måste kyssa och kompensera för Roberts Rebellion, Greyjoy Rebellion och i de flesta dagars löpning i norra.

Det enda omnämnandet av Roose, eller någon Bolton för den delen, i eddards kapitel är emellertid följande. Det är inte en positiv tanke på Ned s.

"Mercy is never a mistake, Lord Renly," Ned replied. "On the Trident, Ser Barristan here cut down a dozen good men, Robert's friends and mine. When they brought him to us, grievously wounded and near death, Roose Bolton urged us to cut his throat, but your brother said, 'I will not kill a man for loyalty, nor for fighting well,' and sent his own maester to tend Ser Barristan's wounds." He gave the king a long cool look. "Would that man were here today."

A Game of Thrones, Eddard VIII

Rhaegar Targaryen nämns i frågan så jag tar upp honom här men jag tror inte Ned föraktade honom. I själva verket verkar de flesta av hans påminnelser om Rhaegar vara ganska positiva, till exempel ...

There was no answer Ned Stark could give to that but a frown. For the first time in years, he found himself remembering Rhaegar Targaryen. He wondered if Rhaegar had frequented brothels; somehow he thought not.

A Game of Thrones, Eddard IX

Faktum är att Rhaegar ger Lyanna drottningen av skönhets laurel istället för sin egen fru och vet om deras relation. Ännu går så långt som till

look after Jon and hide him away.

Det var troligt att Ned hade viss respekt för mannen och förnekar förmodligen honom bara av respekt för Lyanna.

Robert had been jesting with Jon and old Lord Hunter as the prince circled the field after unhorsing Ser Barristan in the final tilt to claim the champion's crown. Ned remembered the moment when all the smiles died, when Prince Rhaegar Targaryen urged his horse past his own wife, the Dornish princess Elia Martell, to lay the queen of beauty's laurel in Lyanna's lap. He could see it still: a crown of winter roses, blue as frost.

A Game of Thrones, Eddard XV

    
svaret ges 12.06.2018 14:26
37

Bra fångst! Jag tror att ett möjligt svar på din fråga är Tywin Lannister. Han var på Robert och Neds sida under upproret, men han är också ansvarig för mordet på Rhaegars fru och barn.

En annan möjlighet är King Robert själv. Medan han och Ned hade varit barndomsvänner tror jag inte Ned känner sig väldigt vänlig mot honom på sidan 200 av Ett spel av troner .

    
svaret ges 17.04.2012 19:06
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Jag tror att det var Tywin Lannister, men inte under Roberts uppror . Starks, Lannisters och andra hus måste gå samman under Greyjoy Rebellion för att bekämpa de styrkor som Balon Greyjoy ledde.

    
svaret ges 16.07.2012 21:25
1

Okej det tog en hel del tanke och kommer alltid att vara åsikt. Men den mest sannolika kandidaten skulle vara Jaime Lannister. Ned uppfattar honom som en skosnöt och tycker att Jaime försökte ta tronen genom mord. Vi vet faktiskt att han hatar Jaime. Självklart är han medlem i Kingsguard och hade förmodligen varit med i de strider som satte upp Greyjoy-upproret. Visst var familjen Lannister involverad sedan upproret började med en attack på Lannisport.

Det är därför det inte skulle vara Tywin. Medan ingen vinst vinner, är Tywin verkligen en stark herre. Men det är Ned. Det finns ingen hänvisning som får oss att tro att Ned inte respekterade andra starka herrar. Faktum är att det är mycket hänvisningar till nordmän som tänker på några konstfåglar som engagerar sig i är ett slöseri med att lära sig krigskunsten. Vi kan också utgå ifrån att han inte har någon respekt för Petyr eftersom han är en fysiskt svag man som får igenom genom manipulation och förräderi. Förrädelsepartiet kan tydligen vara Tywin men Tywin är verkligen inte svagt. Titta jämnt på The Ned POVs och det är uppenbart att han inte har kärlek till Jaime.

Dessutom måste vi komma ihåg att det i det här fallet sägs att fejden mellan Stark och Lannister inte hade börjat än. Säkert kom Ned förmodligen att hata alla Lannisters efter det. Men vid den här tiden är den enda Lannister Ned hatarna Jaime.

    
svaret ges 31.07.2013 05:35
1

Ned Stark ogillade Tywin för sin lustfulla lojalitet, förråda Targaryens när det var klart att de förlorade. Han förnekade honom för sin grymma behandling av Elia och barnen.

    
svaret ges 11.07.2014 00:08