Finns det en passage i Ringenes Herre, berättad ur ett orkans perspektiv?

67

Jag minns tydligt att när jag läste Ringenes Herre , var det en passage som hämtades från en orkns synvinkel (fast det tydligt framgår av den tredje personen).

Jag tror att orkan klagade över hur saker skulle visa sig om de förlorade kriget eller tänkte på hur sakerna förändrades sedan Sauron kom tillbaka - något att göra med att skaffa mat - men jag är inte helt säker.

Jag letade efter det på nätet en stund men kunde inte hitta något om det. Jag tittade igenom böckerna själva men kunde inte hitta det heller.

Var i Ringenes Herre var passagen berättad ur ett orkas perspektiv?

    
uppsättning Wade 02.07.2018 17:13

4 svar

54

Orcs inre tankar beskrivs aldrig i LotR. Men flera dialoger mellan orker är "överhöga" av hobbits (Pippin när han och Merry bärs till Isengard, Sam i Cirith Ungol). De ger oss en inblick i orkernas erfarenhet av kriget.

Särskilt Shagrat och Gorbag, två företagsledare (en från Cirith Ungol, en från Minas Morgul) diskuterar kriget och gör planer för framtiden, så att vi ser hur de ser det hela:

‘No, I don’t know,’ said Gorbag’s voice. ‘The messages go through quicker than anything could fly, as a rule. But I don’t enquire how it’s done. Safest not to. Grr! Those Nazgûl give me the creeps. And they skin the body off you as soon as look at you, and leave you all cold in the dark on the other side. But He likes ’em; they’re His favourites nowadays, so it’s no use grumbling. I tell you, it’s no game serving down in the city.’

‘You should try being up here with Shelob for company,’ said Shagrat.

‘I’d like to try somewhere where there’s none of ’em. But the war’s on now, and when that’s over things may be easier.’

‘It’s going well, they say.’

‘They would,’ grunted Gorbag. ‘We’ll see. But anyway, if it does go well, there should be a lot more room. What d’you say? – if we get a chance, you and me’ll slip off and set up somewhere on our own with a few trusty lads, somewhere where there’s good loot nice and handy, and no big bosses.’

‘Ah!’ said Shagrat. ‘Like old times.’

‘Yes,’ said Gorbag. ‘But don’t count on it. I’m not easy in my mind. As I said, the Big Bosses, ay,’ his voice sank almost to a whisper, ‘ay, even the Biggest, can make mistakes. Something nearly slipped, you say. I say, something has slipped. And we’ve got to look out. Always the poor Uruks to put slips right, and small thanks. But don’t forget: the enemies don’t love us any more than they love Him, and if they get topsides on Him, we’re done too.’

Denna passage, och mycket mer av samma dialog, kommer från The Two Towers , bok IV, kapitel 10 - "Choices of Master Samwise".

    
svaret ges 02.07.2018 20:11
83

Jag tror att den passage du talar om är från Kongens återkomst (bok 6 specifikt). Frodo och Sam har just blivit borta från Cirith Ungol, och de går in i en patrull och hörs följande samtal.

They went two or three miles further, and the orc-hold was hidden from sight behind them; but they had hardly begun to breathe more freely again when harsh and loud they heard orc-voices. Quickly they slunk out of sight behind a brown and stunted bush. The voices drew nearer. Presently two orcs came into view. One was clad in ragged brown and was armed with a bow of horn; it was of a small breed, black-skinned, with wide and snuffling nostrils: evidently a tracker of some kind. The other was a big fighting-orc, like those of Shagrat's company, bearing the token of the Eye.

He also had a bow at his back and carried a short broad-headed spear. As usual they were quarrelling, and being of different breeds they used the Common Speech after their fashion.

Hardly twenty paces from where the hobbits lurked the small orc stopped. 'Nar!' it snarled. 'I'm going home.' It pointed across the valley to the orc-hold. 'No good wearing my nose out on stones any more. There's not a trace left, I say. I've lost the scent through giving way to you. It went up into the hills, not along the valley, I tell you.'

'Not much use are you, you little snufflers?' said the big orc. 'I reckon eyes are better than your snotty noses.'

'Then what have you seen with them?' snarled the other. 'Garn! You don’t even know what you're looking for.'

'Whose blame's that?' said the soldier. 'Not mine. That comes from Higher Up. First they say it's a great Elf in bright armour, then it's a sort of small dwarf-man, then it must be a pack of rebel Uruk-hai; or maybe it's all the lot together.'

'Ar!' said the tracker. 'They've lost their heads, that's what it is. And some of the bosses are going to lose their skins too, I guess, if what I hear is true: Tower raided and all, and hundreds of your lads done in, and prisoner got away. If that's the way you fighters go on, small wonder there's bad news from the battles.'

'Who says there's bad news?' shouted the soldier.

'Ar! Who says there isn't?'

'That's cursed rebel-talk, and I'll stick you, if you don't shut it down, see?'

'All right, all right!' said the tracker. 'I'll say no more and go on thinking. But what's the black sneak got to do with it all? That gobbler with the flapping hands?'

'I don't know. Nothing, maybe. But he's up to no good, nosing around, I'll wager. Curse him! No sooner had he slipped us and run off than word came he's wanted alive, wanted quick.'

'Well, I hope they get him and put him through it,' growled the tracker. 'He messed up the scent back there, pinching that cast-off mail-shirt that he found, and paddling all round the place before I could get there.'

'It saved his life anyhow,' said the soldier. 'Why, before I knew he was wanted I shot him, as neat as neat, at fifty paces right in the back; but he ran on.'

'Garn! You missed him,' said the tracker. 'First you shoot wild, then you run too slow, and then you send for the poor trackers. I've had enough of you.' He loped off.

'You come back,' shouted the soldier, 'or I'll report you!'

'Who to? Not to your precious Shagrat. He won't be captain any more.'

'I'll give your name and number to the Nazgûl,' said the soldier lowering his voice to a hiss. 'One of them 's in charge at the Tower now.'

The other halted, and his voice was full of fear and rage. 'You cursed peaching sneakthief!' he yelled. 'You can't do your job, and you can't even stick by your own folk. Go to your filthy Shriekers, and may they freeze the flesh off you! If the enemy doesn’t get them first. They've done in Number One, I've heard, and I hope it's true!'

The big orc, spear in hand, leapt after him. But the tracker, springing behind a stone, put an arrow in his eye as he ran up, and he fell with a crash. The other ran off across the valley and disappeared.

 

For a while the hobbits sat in silence. At length Sam stirred. 'Well I call that neat as neat,' he said. 'If this nice friendliness would spread about in Mordor, half our trouble would be over.'
Return of the King - Chapter 2: Land of Shadow

(betona min för att markera likheter med detaljerna i fråga)

    
svaret ges 02.07.2018 17:32
32

Passagen i fråga kan vara från Konungens återkomst , bok VI, kapitel 1, "Tornet i Cirith Ungol".

Sam hade infiltrerat tornet, som var fullt av döda orker, att leta efter Frodo, när plötsligt en levande ork springer mot Sam, ser ner.

It was no more than six paces from him when, lifting its head, it saw him; and Sam could hear its gasping breath and see the glare in its bloodshot eyes. It stopped short aghast. For what it saw was not a small frightened hobbit trying to hold a steady sword: it saw a great silent shape, cloaked in a grey shadow, looming against the wavering light behind; in one hand it held a sword, the very light of which was a bitter pain, the other was clutched at its breast, but held concealed some nameless menace of power and doom.

For a moment the orc crouched, and then with a hideous yelp of fear it turned and fled back as it had come.

I andra avsnitt hobbits orörda orker som pratar och beskriver sina tankar och känslor, men det är förmodligen den enda gången som direkt anger orkans känslor och känslor.

    
svaret ges 02.07.2018 22:22
25

Jag har inte läst det, så det här spekulerar jag ganska vildt.

Det är kanske du är felaktigt, och texten är faktiskt från The Last Ringbearer , av Kirill Eskov.

Denna bok (en informell uppföljare till LOTR-trilogin) baseras på förutsättningen att Tolkien-kontot är en "historia skriven av segrarna". I Eskovs version av berättelsen beskrivs Mordor som ett fridfullt land på gränsen till en industriell revolution som utgör ett hot mot den krigsmässiga och imperialistiska fraktionen representerad av Gandalf.

    
svaret ges 03.07.2018 05:25